Discussion:
[Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk
Bernhard Pieber
2012-04-21 18:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Dear Smalltalkers,

I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].

The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.

Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.

It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)

The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0.

The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you.

We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)

Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber

[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]

phil
2012-04-21 19:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Great news!

I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.

I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in
need of improvement for sure.

How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?

Phil

2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new
Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first
presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the
presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles
as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word.
It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting
using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work
with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like
different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple
as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply
styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for
text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel
of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of
English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually
port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor
inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use
the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis
4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company
Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the
mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and
still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create
issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2]
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]
http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"

Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:
phil at highoctane.be| Web:
http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
http://philippeback.be

High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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Bernhard Pieber
2012-04-21 20:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the encouragement!

The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind?

Cheers,
Bernhard

P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3] http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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phil
2012-04-21 20:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Yeah VM works on iOS.

My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent
TextEditor and friends.

For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a
top notch UI kit for editing text.

I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't
have to go through the same pain as I go through now.

Phil

2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn
depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the
port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in
mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is
in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new
Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first
presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the
presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles
as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word.
It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting
using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work
with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like
different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple
as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply
styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for
text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel
of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of
English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually
port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor
inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use
the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis
4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company
Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the
mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and
still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1],
create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2]
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]
http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"

Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:
phil at highoctane.be| Web:
http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
http://philippeback.be

High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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Bernhard Pieber
2012-04-21 20:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil
Yeah VM works on iOS.
Cool!
Post by phil
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends.
For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text.
I totally agree. That's one reason why I started the Styled Text Editor project. ;-)

Cheers,
Bernhard
Post by phil
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now.
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3] http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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H. Hirzel
2012-04-26 17:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Post by phil
Yeah VM works on iOS.
Cool!
Post by phil
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends.
For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a
top notch UI kit for editing text.
I totally agree. That's one reason why I started the Styled Text Editor project. ;-)
Great effort!
Are there screen shots of the implementation available somewhere?

In which format does it save the files? RTF? HTML? Something else?

--Hannes
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Cheers,
Bernhard
Post by phil
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers
don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now.
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn
depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do
the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case
in mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is
in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new
Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first
presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the
presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles
as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word.
It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting
using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to
work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like
different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as
simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users
apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard
shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where
possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of
English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually
port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor
inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use
the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for
Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company
Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the
mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and
still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1],
create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2]
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]
http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil at highoctane.be
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Juan Vuletich (mail lists)
2012-04-26 19:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by H. Hirzel
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Post by phil
Yeah VM works on iOS.
Cool!
Post by phil
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent
TextEditor and friends.
For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a
top notch UI kit for editing text.
I totally agree. That's one reason why I started the Styled Text Editor project. ;-)
Great effort!
Are there screen shots of the implementation available somewhere?
We haven?t published any. I can do it in case you?re not able to run it...
Post by H. Hirzel
In which format does it save the files? RTF? HTML? Something else?
Native format is SmartRefStream. The export to RTF is done and used
for ExtendedClipboard (currently only supported on the 4 series Mac
VM). It would be trivial to add support for saving RTF files, but RTF
can not hold all the features StyledTextEditor supports, so it is
better to use own format.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by H. Hirzel
--Hannes
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Cheers,
Bernhard
Post by phil
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers
don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now.
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn
depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do
the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case
in mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is
in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new
Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first
presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the
presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles
as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word.
It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting
using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to
work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like
different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as
simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users
apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard
shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where
possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of
English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually
port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor
inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use
the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for
Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company
Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the
mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and
still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1],
create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2]
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]
http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil at highoctane.be
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-21 21:26:56 UTC
Permalink
note that igor started to rewrite a part of paragraph editor or textmorph because Athens needs a good text model.

Stef
Post by phil
Yeah VM works on iOS.
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends.
For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text.
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now.
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3] http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 07:26:57 UTC
Permalink
More precisely the model was changed (and need more effort) so that we can use the logic of systems like opengl, cairo?
We are waiting that alain defends his HDR to help us adapting all the textMorph to the new model
now if somebody want to have a look let us know.

Stef
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
note that igor started to rewrite a part of paragraph editor or textmorph because Athens needs a good text model.
Stef
Post by phil
Yeah VM works on iOS.
My use case is private, nothing fancy. I just value having decent TextEditor and friends.
For an OO thing like Smalltalk Pharo, it would be a shame to now have a top notch UI kit for editing text.
I hope to be able to provide several decent samples so that newcomers don't have to go through the same pain as I go through now.
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Thanks for the encouragement!
The necessary funding depends on the effort of course, and this in turn depends on the approach one uses for porting. We have an idea how to do the port to Pharo as an external package. Do you have a concrete use case in mind?
Cheers,
Bernhard
P.S. Did you succeed building the Mac VM on Xcode 4.3 yet?
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
I understand the reasons that led to such things but Collections-Text is in need of improvement for sure.
How much funding would be necessary to get this port done?
Phil
2012/4/21 Bernhard Pieber <bernhard at pieber.com>
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis 4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2] http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3] http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Marcus Denker
2012-04-21 19:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future?

Marcus


--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
phil
2012-04-21 20:18:25 UTC
Permalink
+1

Well, it takes a while to wrap one's mind around it.

I realize how lucky I was with Swing documentation with Java when
developing a UI intensive app.

Lack of doc about all of these things is really a huge issue. Spec helps
but once I wanted to see what was under the hood, it is back to digging
into bowels;

Still digging on...

Phil

2012/4/21 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker at inria.fr>
Post by phil
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media
considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future?
Marcus
--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"

Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:
phil at highoctane.be| Web:
http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
http://philippeback.be

High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-21 21:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil
+1
Well, it takes a while to wrap one's mind around it.
I realize how lucky I was with Swing documentation with Java when developing a UI intensive app.
Lack of doc about all of these things is really a huge issue. Spec helps but once I wanted to see what was under the hood, it is back to digging into bowels;
100% agree.
Post by phil
Still digging on...
Phil
2012/4/21 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker at inria.fr>
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future?
Marcus
--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"
http://philippeback.be
High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
Chris Muller
2012-04-22 18:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of
your biased opinions? Squeak is a fantastic media authoring
environment -- even old versions from years past embarass programs
like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember
the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one
text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text
box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..?

In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of
power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so
reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye."
Post by Marcus Denker
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants, Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the future?
? ? ? ?Marcus
--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
phil
2012-04-22 18:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Ah come on, the code is powerful but not that approachable. Dan Ingalls
even recognized that his text-flowing-through-a-tube was just to prove it
was doable, not that it was maintainable or anything.

Cuis does less but is nicer to learn.
Pharo is opinionated but a benevolent dictatorship is (for me) better than
anarchy that runs in circles.

And without new learners, guess what? You die. A slow death but a death.

I don't want to touch Squeak with pole anymore now that Pharo and Cuis are
around.

That's my biased opinion and I stand by it, especially by 2012 standards.

Phil
2012/4/22 Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com>
Post by Chris Muller
Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of
your biased opinions? Squeak is a fantastic media authoring
environment -- even old versions from years past embarass programs
like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember
the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one
text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text
box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..?
In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of
power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so
reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye."
Post by Marcus Denker
Post by phil
Great news!
I am currently busy looking after Text, TextAttributes, TextConstants,
Paragraph... and god, it went through the grinder and it shows.
Post by Marcus Denker
Isn't it amazing how bad the Squeak code is for text and everything
media considering that the goal was to be the media environment for the
future?
Post by Marcus Denker
Marcus
--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
--
Philippe Back
"Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve"

Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:
phil at highoctane.be| Web:
http://philippeback.eu | Blog:
http://philippeback.be

High Octane SPRL
rue cour Boisacq 101
1301 Bierges
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Marcus Denker
2012-04-22 18:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Muller
Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of
your biased opinions?
Wow, why so aggressive? Do you really do *not* see the problems
that there are in Squeak?
Post by Chris Muller
Squeak is a fantastic media authoring
environment
It is not. I was a promising *idea* (and part protopype) of a fantastic media
enviroment in 1998. But then interestingly everyone decided that the best is
to not improve it or make it real.
Post by Chris Muller
-- even old versions from years past embarass programs
like, say, PowerPoint. It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember
the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one
text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text
box? What other programs that can do that today in 2012..?
It's a toy example. Adding a character means re-flowing everything.
Unusable for larger texts.
Post by Chris Muller
In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of
power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so
reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye."
The complexity in Squeak code does *not* come from the domain.

Marcus

--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
Nicolas Cellier
2012-04-22 18:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Sure, such strong opinions are going nowhere.
and this thread isn't going to produce anything constructive as it started.
Please take a more professional p.o.v. and tell which feature is
lacking, which one is superfluous.
Then, and only then, start discussing what is unnecessarily complex in
current implementation and propose possible alternative
implementations.

I insist on the features. For example, the fact that every class was
cloned to implement internationalization certainly participates to
such complexity, but the right question is about the features: should
internationalization be optional and un-loadable or is it mandatory?

Nicolas
Post by Marcus Denker
Post by Chris Muller
Did your "Smalltalk Code Critic" tell you that or just another one of
your biased opinions?
Wow, why so aggressive? Do you really do *not* see the problems
that there are in Squeak?
Post by Chris Muller
Squeak is a fantastic media authoring
environment
It is not. I was a promising *idea* (and part protopype) of a fantastic media
enviroment in 1998. But then interestingly everyone decided that the best is
to not improve it or make it real.
Post by Chris Muller
-- even old versions from years past embarass programs
like, say, PowerPoint. ?It's text-handling is fantastic -- remember
the release image delivered with text on the desktop flowing out one
text box, following along a loop-de-loop spline and into another text
box? ?What other programs that can do that today in 2012..?
It's a toy example. Adding a character means re-flowing everything.
Unusable for larger texts.
Post by Chris Muller
In the spirit of Squeak, the original developers delivered a lot of
power with little code. But yes, it's a complex domain and so
reviewing the code in one afternoon may not meet your "aesthetic eye."
The complexity in Squeak code does *not* come from the domain.
? ? ? ?Marcus
--
Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
Göran Krampe
2012-04-23 09:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks!

Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall
into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?

Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the
leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a
blessed project for Pharo?

Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important
part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis).
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any
ideas or thoughts?

regards, G?ran
Sven Van Caekenberghe
2012-04-23 10:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi G?ran,
Post by Göran Krampe
Hi folks!
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
Post by Göran Krampe
Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo?
Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis). Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I am not familiar with the subject, but it seems like a nice editor was written on top of a specific GUI framework on top of Cuis, a nice, clean Smalltalk.

The question of porting seems like asking to convert an very GUI intensive app from the Microsoft Windows API to the Apple Cocoa API, or vice versa.

How realistic can that be, without forking ?

Sven
Janko Mivšek
2012-04-23 10:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Göran Krampe
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations
here.

Best regards
Janko
--
Janko Miv?ek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Sven Van Caekenberghe
2012-04-23 10:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janko Mivšek
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Göran Krampe
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
No, it was Marcus, be fair please.
No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion.

How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ?

Sven

PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-)
Janko Mivšek
2012-04-23 11:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Janko Mivšek
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Göran Krampe
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
No, it was Marcus, be fair please.
No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion.
How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ?
Well, this is prime example of how nowadays society in general ( not
just in our community) we are not able to react even to a bit
provocative observations with argument-only responses. Specially we as
technical profession should be able to stay on argumented debate even in
with emotions present.

Anyone remember the techniques of disputes in European medieval
universities? Then it was normal to be angry and emotional, but you
should "ride you own anger" to get an energy for as better as possible
disputing with your opponent, which mostly ends up with the best result.
Much better than with isolated effort, without such dispute and without
all the energy in emotions there. Emotions are therefore not to be
suppressed but canalized towards the better end!
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-)
I know I know :)

Best regards
Janko
--
Janko Miv?ek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Norbert Hartl
2012-04-23 12:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Janko Mivšek
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Göran Krampe
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
No, it was Marcus, be fair please.
No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion.
How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ?
Well, this is prime example of how nowadays society in general ( not ...
Well, let me recap. Someone said something less polite. Another one responded in an equal unpolite way (that's two). Then there is talk about the one who said something (that's three). And a few steps after we already have global spanning theory of a problem (including all)?
I'm not sure if I just don't get it but it sounds like non-sense to me. At least I'm sure it adds nothing!

Norbert
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-)
I know I know :)
Best regards
Janko
--
Janko Miv?ek
Aida/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
Norbert Hartl
2012-04-23 10:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janko Mivšek
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Post by Göran Krampe
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread.
No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations
here.
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened.

Regarding the styled text editor it is highly bound to the changes that have been made to Cuis. So there is close to no chance to have a common codebase. It will be a fork anyway. And what I heard it will be a lot of work to adapt it anyway.

Norbert
Göran Krampe
2012-04-23 11:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norbert Hartl
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened.
Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it
:). We are all the same family, the both communities overlap a lot. For
example, what am I? Am I a Squeak-guy? Or a Pharo-guy? Or an Amber-guy?
Post by Norbert Hartl
Regarding the styled text editor it is highly bound to the changes that have been made to Cuis. So there is close to no chance to have a common codebase. It will be a fork anyway. And what I heard it will be a lot of work to adapt it anyway.
Ok, then the "interesting aspect" is moot, or at least ... a different
question - who wants to port? :)

regards, G?ran
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 13:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norbert Hartl
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened.
Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it :).
May be other people are tired by other aspects?
No? I guess so.

We have a vision and people can help making it true or not. :)
But our goal is to support business emerge (with our little mean) but we try hard.

Stef
Göran Krampe
2012-04-23 14:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Hey all!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Norbert Hartl
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened.
Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it :).
May be other people are tired by other aspects?
No? I guess so.
I don't follow. What do you mean?
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
We have a vision and people can help making it true or not. :)
But our goal is to support business emerge (with our little mean) but we try hard.
I know and I am all behind it, 100%. The thing is, this "history" behind
the Squeak/Pharo divide is still lurking between the lines and I
(personally) am tired of it.

For example, I often get the feeling that my posts to this list raise
replies as if I am some kind of "outsider", just because I was heavily
involved in Squeak earlier or something.

I am a Pharoer too. I may be more of a bystander these days than a
contributor (since I don't have a lot of time to spend) - but I am only
using *Pharo* these days, not Squeak. Yup, sorry Squeak, but it is just
the reality. I *still* wish the best for Squeak though, and all other
open source or commercial efforts in the Smalltalk arena.

I think it would be nice if we all could be a little bit more positive
and inclusive, especially the people who are prominent in our
(overlapping) communities - you set the example. :)

I really don't see any gain in Pharo spewing negatives over Squeak,
Squeak is still the inheritage of Pharo and I for one am proud of the
friendliness of the Smalltalk community. Nor of course see I any gain in
spewing in the other direction, it goes both ways.

Now, I suspect this light criticism wrapped up in smileys and all, and
with all the good intentions, will still lead to negative replies. But I
hope not. Perhaps time to simply move on? ;)

regards, G?ran

PS. I love all the momentum in Pharo right now, it all looks very good,
and I am itching digging into 1.4! Superb work.
Igor Stasenko
2012-04-23 18:36:40 UTC
Permalink
I stop reacting to these things long ago. It just a waste of time.
I don't care if people prefer A over B or C over D, as long as they
are not evangelizing me make same choice.


I never spew on Squeak or people, since i am part of community.. and
its like spewing on myself at the end...

Apart from it, lying the facts about quality of some smelly Squeak
code (and consequently Pharo as well, since it inherits from it).
There is no need to divide on camps. Bad code is bad code, no matter
if it is in Squeak or Pharo.
As i told before, i prefer to call 'crap' what is crap. And it is
completely neutral towards fork(s), and based only on quality of code
in question and my bias towards better solutions :)
And i expect that pointing out to this should not provoke negative
emotions, but an efforts to fix it (or discussion how to fix it).

And i DO respect an effort of people who implemented things we using..
Even if implementation not perfect.
But hey, we are here to fix it! And pointing out to flaw is a first step.
Post by Göran Krampe
Hey all!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Norbert Hartl
It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this.
It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact
that it happened.
Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it :).
May be other people are tired by other aspects?
No? I guess so.
I don't follow. What do you mean?
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
We have a vision and people can help making it true or not. :)
But our goal is to support business emerge (with our little mean) but we try hard.
I know and I am all behind it, 100%. The thing is, this "history" behind the
Squeak/Pharo divide is still lurking between the lines and I (personally) am
tired of it.
For example, I often get the feeling that my posts to this list raise
replies as if I am some kind of "outsider", just because I was heavily
involved in Squeak earlier or something.
I am a Pharoer too. I may be more of a bystander these days than a
contributor (since I don't have a lot of time to spend) - but I am only
using *Pharo* these days, not Squeak. Yup, sorry Squeak, but it is just the
reality. I *still* wish the best for Squeak though, and all other open
source or commercial efforts in the Smalltalk arena.
I think it would be nice if we all could be a little bit more positive and
inclusive, especially the people who are prominent in our (overlapping)
communities - you set the example. :)
I really don't see any gain in Pharo spewing negatives over Squeak, Squeak
is still the inheritage of Pharo and I for one am proud of the friendliness
of the Smalltalk community. Nor of course see I any gain in spewing in the
other direction, it goes both ways.
Now, I suspect this light criticism wrapped up in smileys and all, and with
all the good intentions, will still lead to negative replies. But I hope
not. Perhaps time to simply move on? ;)
regards, G?ran
PS. I love all the momentum in Pharo right now, it all looks very good, and
I am itching digging into 1.4! Superb work.
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 13:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Göran Krampe
Hi folks!
Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now?
Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo?
what are we talking about?
If somebody want to port this work to pharo he is more than welcome.
Post by Göran Krampe
Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis).
?
You are not talking about CUIS text editor?
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Post by Göran Krampe
regards, G?ran
Göran Krampe
2012-04-23 14:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants
to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new
editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).

The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't
leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) can't
just go around and forking everything and maintaining everything for
ourselves, right?

I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies indicated
that it would still need a substantial rewrite for Pharo, so perhaps the
situation I am describing is not really applicable in this case.

regards, G?ran
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 15:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).
The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining everything for ourselves, right?
But this is not that simple since Cuis layout is different and juan changed a lot the code.
We are also cleaning morphic so there is no magic.
I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really applicable in this case.
Kind of
I already talked at ESUG last year about that with bernahrd.
regards, G?ran
Göran Krampe
2012-04-23 15:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).
The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining everything for ourselves, right?
But this is not that simple since Cuis layout is different and juan changed a lot the code.
We are also cleaning morphic so there is no magic.
I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really applicable in this case.
Kind of
I already talked at ESUG last year about that with bernahrd.
Ok, good!

cheers, G?ran
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 15:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Goran (and others)

I know that you know but let me repeat it.

Our goal is to push as much as we can so that other people that us can make money
building software with Pharo. We want to get pharo bring money in the community and that people can make a living with it.
I would love to be invited to celebrate the wealth of company having success with Pharo.

Now we do not have that much money to pay people for improving the system. May be marcus is ranting
because he sees that with a bit of care in the past the base system would not force us to spend a lot of energy improving
it and we could focus on the next generation. Because this is what we want to do, invent the future: new compiler, first class instance variable, micro kernel? We are getting there but we are fixing a lot while doing that. A lot and more.

As a researcher we could just create our own little smalltalk and be happy and life forever. Now improving Pharo is a tedious and ****difficult****, not bold, ?.. task. Now we welcome people that want to help pushing in that direction and we want to go as fast as
we can (because time passes and we are getting old :)).

Stef: I'm clean :)
Sven Van Caekenberghe
2012-04-23 15:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).
G?ran,

You know that many packages, even some very large ones, are reasonably portable.

But I guess portability kind of stops when non-trivial GUI usage is involved.

Also, as Pharo is making more and more changes, portability will become harder and harder until it is mostly gone.

There are only two solutions:

- write your own code to a least common feature set and miss all the new APIs
- halt all non-compatible changes in Pharo and stop its evolution

Neither are attractive options I guess.

Sven
Bernhard Pieber
2012-04-23 16:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi G?ran,

Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible.

Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to Cuis so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can be done is the following:
Split Cuis into three parts,
a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools
b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ? this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it
c) the Smalltalk kernel below

The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo.

Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.

I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-)

I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for that as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)

Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask everyone who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!

Peace,
Bernhard

P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish different threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement posting has caused.
Hi!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).
The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining everything for ourselves, right?
I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really applicable in this case.
regards, G?ran
David Graham
2012-04-23 18:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Would the Spoon project be relevant for this scenario? Craig mentioned
on the Spoon list that he is working with Cuis.
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Hi G?ran,
Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible.
Split Cuis into three parts,
a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools
b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ? this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it
c) the Smalltalk kernel below
The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-)
I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for that as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask everyone who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!
Peace,
Bernhard
P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish different threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement posting has caused.
Hi!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in this case Cuis).
The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining everything for ourselves, right?
I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really applicable in this case.
regards, G?ran
Juan Vuletich (mail lists)
2012-04-24 01:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Graham
Would the Spoon project be relevant for this scenario? Craig
mentioned on the Spoon list that he is working with Cuis.
Hi David,

I think Spoon could be very useful. I'm waiting for some tutorial or
howto on how to use Spoon for this.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by David Graham
Post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
Hi G?ran,
Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the
Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have
not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not
straightforward but I consider it possible.
Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is
loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to
Cuis so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think
Split Cuis into three parts,
a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools
b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on -
this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan
spent years cleaning it
c) the Smalltalk kernel below
The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it
has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for
Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you
will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually,
one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text
Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a
prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG
and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of
funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably,
of course! ;-)
I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible
to develop substantial components as you called it - thank you for
that as well - in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask
everyone who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the
Styled Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet)
run on your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!
Peace,
Bernhard
P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish different
threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement
posting has caused.
Post by Göran Krampe
Hi!
Post by Stéphane Ducasse
Post by Göran Krampe
Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less
optimal. Any ideas or thoughts?
I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap
and make it getting real.
It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
So can you help us to get focused?
People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap
and we will do it.
Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community
wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this
case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in
this case Cuis).
The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't
leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo)
can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining
everything for ourselves, right?
I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies
indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for
Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really
applicable in this case.
regards, G?ran
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 19:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible.
Split Cuis into three parts,
a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools
b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ? this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it
c) the Smalltalk kernel below
good idea
Post by Bernhard Pieber
The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-)
I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for that as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
Stéphane Ducasse
2012-04-23 19:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not straightforward but I consider it possible.
Split Cuis into three parts,
a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the Cuis tools
b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ? this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent years cleaning it
c) the Smalltalk kernel below
good idea
Post by Bernhard Pieber
The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, of course! ;-)
I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible to develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for that as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
Chris Muller
2012-04-23 14:53:21 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Douglas Brebner
2012-04-22 03:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word. It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Well, with Pharo 1.4, Cuis 4.0 and now this among others we're just
being showered with great stuff, congratulations :)

This sounds like it would work well with the ePub support I believe was
mentioned for a google summer project.
S Krish
2012-04-23 05:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Great.. been looking forward to this for a long time..
Post by Bernhard Pieber
Dear Smalltalkers,
I am very happy to announce that the Styled Text Editor for the brand new
Cuis 4.0 is now available on GitHub [1]. The Styled Text Editor was first
presented by me at last year's ESUG in Edinburgh [2]. Thanks to ESUG the
presentation was recorded [3].
The Styled Text Editor is a framework for rich text editing using styles
as known from popular word processors like Apple Pages or Microsoft Word.
It features paragraph and character styles, allowing easy text formatting
using styles only. It is intended for applications where users need to work
with good looking rich text in a simple and fast way.
Rich text commonly refers to text with formatting information like
different fonts, sizes, alignments, and emphasis. To make editing as simple
as possible instead of individual formatting information end users apply
styles to parts of the text. Editing is made fast by keyboard shortcuts for
text navigation, selection, and styles selection. Where possible the feel
of widely used rich text editors is supported.
It includes many features like
- numbered and bulleted list paragraph styles
- support for images
- multiple level undo and redo
- text completion using various glossaries including a dictionary of
English with about 166.000 words
- RTF clipboard (on OS X VMs with the ClipboardExtendedPlugin)
The Styled Text Editor is developed in Cuis with the plan to eventually
port it to Squeak and Pharo. The development of the Styled Text Editor
inspired many changes to Cuis itself, and It is the first package to use
the brand new DVCS based development process for external packages for Cuis
4.0.
The idea and funding was provided by me, Bernhard Pieber and my company
Software Generation. The implementation was done by Juan Vuletich, the
mastermind behind Cuis. Thanks Juan for the close cooperation. It was and
still is great fun to work with you.
We are looking forward to feedback from you. Fork it on GitHub [1], create
issues and send us pull requests. ;-)
Cheers,
Bernhard Pieber
[1] https://github.com/bpieber/Cuis-StyledTextEditor
[2]
http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2011/Schedule-And-Talks/StyledTextEditor
[3]
http://youtu.be/pUoVbvwspi8
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Dale Henrichs
2012-04-23 20:57:57 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Dale Henrichs
2012-04-24 04:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Bernhard and Juan,

I was curious enough about Cypress and Cuis to start a Cypress port to Cuis[1]. Loaded code and started working through tests:

19 run, 6 passed, 3 failed, 10 errors

We'll see if I get any farther tonight:)

Dale

[1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/cuis-cypress

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:57:57 PM
| Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk
|
| Bernhard,
|
| With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to recommend
| that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing to help as
| much as I can).
|
| The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of
| packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that possibly
| the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github).
|
| If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a
| reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference
| implementation is a work in progress and the initial implementation
| was done for Amber[2].
|
| Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few
| ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... more
| than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The fact
| that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access) speaks
| volumes for it's portability.
|
| To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject:
|
| Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control
| system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code
| between dialects you should allow your developers to import
| and export code using the Cypress package format.
|
| If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few
| other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project
| and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress
| project before tackling another port ...
|
| We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on
| the offer of help:)
|
| Dale
|
| [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress
| [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress
| [3]
| http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard at pieber.com>
| | To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM
| | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0
| | Smalltalk
| |
| | Hi G?ran,
| |
| | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the
| | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have
| | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not
| | straightforward but I consider it possible.
| |
| | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is
| | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to
| | Cuis
| | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can
| | be
| | done is the following:
| | Split Cuis into three parts,
| | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the
| | Cuis tools
| | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ?
| | this
| | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent
| | years cleaning it
| | c) the Smalltalk kernel below
| |
| | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it
| | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for
| | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you
| | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually,
| | one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
| |
| | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text
| | Editor
| | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite
| | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
| |
| | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG
| | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of
| | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably,
| | of course! ;-)
| |
| | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible
| | to
| | develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for
| | that
| | as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
| |
| | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask
| | everyone
| | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled
| | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on
| | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!
| |
| | Peace,
| | Bernhard
| |
| | P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish different
| | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement
| | posting has caused.
| |
| | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb G?ran Krampe:
| | > Hi!
| | >
| | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
| | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less
| | >>> optimal.
| | >>> Any ideas or thoughts?
| | >>
| | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap
| | >> and
| | >> make it getting real.
| | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
| | >> So can you help us to get focused?
| | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have
| | >> a
| | >> roadmap
| | >> and we will do it.
| | >
| | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community
| | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this
| | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in
| | > this case Cuis).
| | >
| | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't
| | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo)
| | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining
| | > everything for ourselves, right?
| | >
| | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies
| | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for
| | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really
| | > applicable in this case.
| | >
| | > regards, G?ran
| | >
| |
| |
| |
|
Juan Vuletich (mail lists)
2012-04-24 11:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dale,
Post by Dale Henrichs
Bernhard and Juan,
I was curious enough about Cypress and Cuis to start a Cypress port
19 run, 6 passed, 3 failed, 10 errors
We'll see if I get any farther tonight:)
Dale
[1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/cuis-cypress
This is great, thank you!

I took a look at your format when thinking on how to do Cuis package
format, and I think that for a Cuis specific package format, a single
file per package will be easier to diff / merge by Git.

But I really welcome and thank you for this format for cross-dialect packages!

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
Post by Dale Henrichs
----- Original Message -----
| From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:57:57 PM
| Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk
|
| Bernhard,
|
| With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to recommend
| that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing to help as
| much as I can).
|
| The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of
| packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that possibly
| the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github).
|
| If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a
| reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference
| implementation is a work in progress and the initial implementation
| was done for Amber[2].
|
| Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few
| ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... more
| than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The fact
| that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access) speaks
| volumes for it's portability.
|
|
| Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control
| system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code
| between dialects you should allow your developers to import
| and export code using the Cypress package format.
|
| If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few
| other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project
| and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress
| project before tackling another port ...
|
| We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on
| the offer of help:)
|
| Dale
|
| [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress
| [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress
| [3]
| http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard at pieber.com>
| | To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM
| | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0
| | Smalltalk
| |
| | Hi G?ran,
| |
| | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the
| | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have
| | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not
| | straightforward but I consider it possible.
| |
| | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is
| | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to
| | Cuis
| | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can
| | be
| | Split Cuis into three parts,
| | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the
| | Cuis tools
| | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on ?
| | this
| | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent
| | years cleaning it
| | c) the Smalltalk kernel below
| |
| | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it
| | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for
| | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you
| | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually,
| | one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
| |
| | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text
| | Editor
| | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite
| | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
| |
| | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG
| | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of
| | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably,
| | of course! ;-)
| |
| | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible
| | to
| | develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for
| | that
| | as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
| |
| | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask
| | everyone
| | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled
| | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on
| | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!
| |
| | Peace,
| | Bernhard
| |
| | P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish different
| | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement
| | posting has caused.
| |
| | > Hi!
| | >
| | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less
| | >>> optimal.
| | >>> Any ideas or thoughts?
| | >>
| | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap
| | >> and
| | >> make it getting real.
| | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real.
| | >> So can you help us to get focused?
| | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have
| | >> a
| | >> roadmap
| | >> and we will do it.
| | >
| | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community
| | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this
| | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in
| | > this case Cuis).
| | >
| | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't
| | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo)
| | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining
| | > everything for ourselves, right?
| | >
| | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies
| | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for
| | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really
| | > applicable in this case.
| | >
| | > regards, G?ran
| | >
| |
| |
| |
|
Edgar J. De Cleene
2012-04-24 08:41:03 UTC
Permalink
On 4/23/12 10:28 PM, "Juan Vuletich (mail lists)" <juanlists at jvuletich.org>
Post by Juan Vuletich (mail lists)
I think Spoon could be very useful. I'm waiting for some tutorial or
howto on how to use Spoon for this.
Craig ?

Several of us wait a tutorial of how you got from Spoon to Cuis ....


Edgar
Dale Henrichs
2012-04-24 15:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Juan,

Exactly!

BTW, I've got just a little more work to do before Cuis will be able to read and write Cypress:)

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Juan Vuletich (mail lists)" <juanlists at jvuletich.org>
| To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:55:26 AM
| Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk
|
| Hi Dale,
|
| Quoting Dale Henrichs <dhenrich at vmware.com>:
|
| > Bernhard and Juan,
| >
| > I was curious enough about Cypress and Cuis to start a Cypress port
| > to Cuis[1]. Loaded code and started working through tests:
| >
| > 19 run, 6 passed, 3 failed, 10 errors
| >
| > We'll see if I get any farther tonight:)
| >
| > Dale
| >
| > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/cuis-cypress
|
| This is great, thank you!
|
| I took a look at your format when thinking on how to do Cuis package
| format, and I think that for a Cuis specific package format, a single
| file per package will be easier to diff / merge by Git.
|
| But I really welcome and thank you for this format for cross-dialect
| packages!
|
| Cheers,
| Juan Vuletich
|
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:57:57 PM
| > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis
| > | 4.0
| > Smalltalk
| > |
| > | Bernhard,
| > |
| > | With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to
| > | recommend
| > | that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing to help
| > | as
| > | much as I can).
| > |
| > | The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of
| > | packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that
| > | possibly
| > | the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github).
| > |
| > | If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a
| > | reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference
| > | implementation is a work in progress and the initial
| > | implementation
| > | was done for Amber[2].
| > |
| > | Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few
| > | ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ...
| > | more
| > | than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The
| > | fact
| > | that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access)
| > | speaks
| > | volumes for it's portability.
| > |
| > | To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject:
| > |
| > | Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control
| > | system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code
| > | between dialects you should allow your developers to import
| > | and export code using the Cypress package format.
| > |
| > | If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few
| > | other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project
| > | and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress
| > | project before tackling another port ...
| > |
| > | We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up
| > | on
| > | the offer of help:)
| > |
| > | Dale
| > |
| > | [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress
| > | [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress
| > | [3]
| > | http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk
| > |
| > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard at pieber.com>
| > | | To: Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
| > | | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM
| > | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis
| > | | 4.0
| > | | Smalltalk
| > | |
| > | | Hi G?ran,
| > | |
| > | | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the
| > | | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still
| > | | have
| > | | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is
| > | | not
| > | | straightforward but I consider it possible.
| > | |
| > | | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which
| > | | is
| > | | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to
| > | | Cuis
| > | | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think
| > | | can
| > | | be
| > | | done is the following:
| > | | Split Cuis into three parts,
| > | | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like
| > | | the
| > | | Cuis tools
| > | | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on
| > | | ?
| > | | this
| > | | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan
| > | | spent
| > | | years cleaning it
| > | | c) the Smalltalk kernel below
| > | |
| > | | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor.
| > | | And it
| > | | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages
| > | | for
| > | | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition
| > | | you
| > | | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done
| > | | manually,
| > | | one for Squeak and one for Pharo.
| > | |
| > | | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text
| > | | Editor
| > | | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a
| > | | prerequisite
| > | | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code.
| > | |
| > | | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach
| > | | ESUG
| > | | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other
| > | | sources of
| > | | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up
| > | | considerably,
| > | | of course! ;-)
| > | |
| > | | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be
| > | | possible
| > | | to
| > | | develop substantial components as you called it ? thank you for
| > | | that
| > | | as well ? in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-)
| > | |
| > | | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask
| > | | everyone
| > | | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the
| > | | Styled
| > | | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run
| > | | on
| > | | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you!
| > | |
| > | | Peace,
| > | | Bernhard
| > | |
| > | | P.S. Thanks to G?ran and Janko for trying to establish
| > | | different
| > | | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my
| > | | announcement
| > | | posting has caused.
| > | |
| > | | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb G?ran Krampe:
| > | | > Hi!
| > | | >
| > | | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
| > | | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less
| > | | >>> optimal.
| > | | >>> Any ideas or thoughts?
| > | | >>
| > | | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our
| > | | >> roadmap
| > | | >> and
| > | | >> make it getting real.
| > | | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for
| > | | >> real.
| > | | >> So can you help us to get focused?
| > | | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We
| > | | >> have
| > | | >> a
| > | | >> roadmap
| > | | >> and we will do it.
| > | | >
| > | | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo
| > | | > community
| > | | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this
| > | | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo
| > | | > (in
| > | | > this case Cuis).
| > | | >
| > | | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this
| > | | > doesn't
| > | | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We
| > | | > (Pharo)
| > | | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining
| > | | > everything for ourselves, right?
| > | | >
| > | | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies
| > | | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for
| > | | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really
| > | | > applicable in this case.
| > | | >
| > | | > regards, G?ran
| > | | >
| > | |
| > | |
| > | |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
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